Okay so I have two syntheses of n,n-DMT and a rough idea of a synth for DET also.
I have a couple of questions that I really need answering. I am not going to list the steps or anything, just the general gist of what happens in them or how they differ and why that confuses me.
I have done the MHRB extraction - many times before and it’s what got me interested in organic chemistry as a hobby.
I am aware of two syntheses for turning tryptamine freebase into n,n-DMT and potentially DET, with just a slight tweak.
Okay so, I call the two different methods the hamiltons crazy three eye balaclava guy’s synth or a Reddit synth.
I have seen links to both of these on this forum so it’s not like I’m coming up with anything new but I’m concerned about the Hamilton’s mad guys route due to hearing mumbles about him saying they actually did something different to the synthesis he gives but honestly it looks fine to me - the thing I don’t really understand is that at the end of Hamilton’s video he says - “after the rxn mixture has sat to completion, you use PH manipulation anagolous to when you do it from plant matter.
So seeing as it utilises STAB, made in situ just before running the rxn, instead of standard NaBH4, it is going to already be acidic I would imagine (due to using glacial acetic acid to make the STAB) but if not - do I literally use the exact same things for the acids and alkali’s one would use in a MHRB extraction (5% white vinegar + NaOH)?
Secondly, I am assuming you wouldn’t extract it using naptha, due to it being a low quality petroleum product, as opposed to something like chloroform or DCM? I also have access to diethyl-ether but I’m not sure if it’s the correct polarity. Oh yeh one more question about this synthesis is why do they need to use PH manipulation to ‘extract’ the DMT from this RM and yet they don’t say to do that in the second synthesis? - it seems like this synth makes it easier to x’stalise than the second one.
I have DEFINITELY heard of people crystallising from boiling hexane, as is mentioned in the second synth I found.
Okay so for this one - yes, I know it came from Reddit and isn’t the best source - I say that like most of Reddit stuff is realistic and likely to work, which when you delve into this subject some things seem to have been written by people who actually understand the subject and others just write bullshit. This one seems okay and isn’t SO different to the first, it all has to be carried out at <= 0 degrees c - same as the other.
It also utilises a lot of the same reagents; tryptamine, formaldehyde and sodium borohydride being the three standard molecules iv seen people use to make tertiary tryptamines.
The difference being, I am assuming that NaBH4 isn’t as ‘strong’ of a reducer as STAB, because you have to do two seperate reductions, adding more boro to take it from NMT to DMT in the second synth. He also doesn’t use PH manipulation to try to crystalise it and instead cleans it up first as an oil and then he /she crystalises from boiling hexane.
I guess it’s hard for people to chime in if they’ve not seen either synth so here is a link to the Hamilton one (I went to settings in pootube and slowed it down to half speed, I believe) Hamiltons way.
Then you need a link to the second synthesis of it which is here: Mr Reddit’s Way.
I am really hoping you can help me to be honest as I’m a little flummoxed….
Oh and also - iv seen that if you substitute the formaldehyde for acetaldehyde that it would essentially form DET…although I’m pretty sure he just wrote to use NaBH4 for that - he also uses just NaBH4 for his 5-meo-DMT synthesis as well which leads me to think this is his preferred chem to use over STAB but then again, the crazy chemist says stab is better for carbonyl’s.
I’m not short on tryptamine AT ALL, seeing as you are pretty much forced into buying en-mass from China - or decarb it yourself from tryptophan but that’s a horrible rxn to do and it is better run in an inert atmosphere or under vacuum to bring down the boiling point. Anyway I abandoned that project - it’s not an ideal first rxn to complete!
The thing I like about the second RXN method is it doesn’t use up my VERY limited supply of DCE and glacial acetic acid. Obviously tryptamine is fairly heavy as a molecule and therefore it means you end up using more solvents and acids - or I guess I should say, it utilises harder to obtain solvents and acids than the second method.
I think I plan on trying the second method first to be honest. I may well take a trip back to rhodium and see what the synths are saying on there as iv not checked there in a while - certainly not since iv had tryptamine.
If someone is able to clear up literally ANY of these questions I’d be incredibly grateful. I’m awaiting getting paid tomorrow to be able to buy more anhydrous methanol and will most likely buy some dry ice (I have plenty of acetone) which should keep it nice and cold.
It just makes sense to me that you would alter the PH in order to manipulate the product, clean it up a little and allow it to x’stalise. Then re-x….and probably re-x again given that I’ll most likely be doing either subcutaneous injections or if I can get a drip machine / medicinal infusion machine, I can ride the waves and explore the DMT-scape a little better and maybe be able to remember a little more….
Also, I know there is a lot in this post - if you have performed this RXN personally could you possibly chime in and let me know which method you went about it in? I am not looking to milk the cash cow here - this is literally for my learning as well as maybe my own personal use. I heard yesterday on hamiltons podcast there is a company in Spain that will test alkaloid content of organic matter as well as doing GCMS on whatever sample you send in….pretty exciting stuff - probably WAY outside my budget but we’ll see!
It’s funny how tryptamine smells like DMT. That sort of plasticky type smell - I’m not willing to see if it tastes the same when inhaled though!!
On a more serious note - although I may not get it tested professionally, I will be doing TLC to make sure the RXN is complete - trouble is my glass plates are MASSIVE. Could I get a glass cutter and cut the silicon sprayed plates from 20cmx10cm to 10cmx5cm. Then i would have 5 much smaller plates that will actually fit into a beaker I own instead of having to buy a huge beaker to do any TLC…
Also; watching hamiltons 5-meo-DMT synthesis that he does in Mexico; I noticed he used paper TLC for the same reason and his pieces of paper are about the same size I would score and knock the glass off as. I’m just wondering how he can get away with using paper for TLC when everyone else I have spoken to says that you should be using glass plates sprayed with silicon - I just didn’t look at the size! I have a black light for said usage but if I can get away with using some sort of paper TLC that’s going to be easier.
Thanks in advance - sorry this post is a bit is a scatter of chaos!
Hope you can help with at least something!
RR
I have a couple of questions that I really need answering. I am not going to list the steps or anything, just the general gist of what happens in them or how they differ and why that confuses me.
I have done the MHRB extraction - many times before and it’s what got me interested in organic chemistry as a hobby.
I am aware of two syntheses for turning tryptamine freebase into n,n-DMT and potentially DET, with just a slight tweak.
Okay so, I call the two different methods the hamiltons crazy three eye balaclava guy’s synth or a Reddit synth.
I have seen links to both of these on this forum so it’s not like I’m coming up with anything new but I’m concerned about the Hamilton’s mad guys route due to hearing mumbles about him saying they actually did something different to the synthesis he gives but honestly it looks fine to me - the thing I don’t really understand is that at the end of Hamilton’s video he says - “after the rxn mixture has sat to completion, you use PH manipulation anagolous to when you do it from plant matter.
So seeing as it utilises STAB, made in situ just before running the rxn, instead of standard NaBH4, it is going to already be acidic I would imagine (due to using glacial acetic acid to make the STAB) but if not - do I literally use the exact same things for the acids and alkali’s one would use in a MHRB extraction (5% white vinegar + NaOH)?
Secondly, I am assuming you wouldn’t extract it using naptha, due to it being a low quality petroleum product, as opposed to something like chloroform or DCM? I also have access to diethyl-ether but I’m not sure if it’s the correct polarity. Oh yeh one more question about this synthesis is why do they need to use PH manipulation to ‘extract’ the DMT from this RM and yet they don’t say to do that in the second synthesis? - it seems like this synth makes it easier to x’stalise than the second one.
I have DEFINITELY heard of people crystallising from boiling hexane, as is mentioned in the second synth I found.
Okay so for this one - yes, I know it came from Reddit and isn’t the best source - I say that like most of Reddit stuff is realistic and likely to work, which when you delve into this subject some things seem to have been written by people who actually understand the subject and others just write bullshit. This one seems okay and isn’t SO different to the first, it all has to be carried out at <= 0 degrees c - same as the other.
It also utilises a lot of the same reagents; tryptamine, formaldehyde and sodium borohydride being the three standard molecules iv seen people use to make tertiary tryptamines.
The difference being, I am assuming that NaBH4 isn’t as ‘strong’ of a reducer as STAB, because you have to do two seperate reductions, adding more boro to take it from NMT to DMT in the second synth. He also doesn’t use PH manipulation to try to crystalise it and instead cleans it up first as an oil and then he /she crystalises from boiling hexane.
I guess it’s hard for people to chime in if they’ve not seen either synth so here is a link to the Hamilton one (I went to settings in pootube and slowed it down to half speed, I believe) Hamiltons way.
Then you need a link to the second synthesis of it which is here: Mr Reddit’s Way.
I am really hoping you can help me to be honest as I’m a little flummoxed….
Oh and also - iv seen that if you substitute the formaldehyde for acetaldehyde that it would essentially form DET…although I’m pretty sure he just wrote to use NaBH4 for that - he also uses just NaBH4 for his 5-meo-DMT synthesis as well which leads me to think this is his preferred chem to use over STAB but then again, the crazy chemist says stab is better for carbonyl’s.
I’m not short on tryptamine AT ALL, seeing as you are pretty much forced into buying en-mass from China - or decarb it yourself from tryptophan but that’s a horrible rxn to do and it is better run in an inert atmosphere or under vacuum to bring down the boiling point. Anyway I abandoned that project - it’s not an ideal first rxn to complete!
The thing I like about the second RXN method is it doesn’t use up my VERY limited supply of DCE and glacial acetic acid. Obviously tryptamine is fairly heavy as a molecule and therefore it means you end up using more solvents and acids - or I guess I should say, it utilises harder to obtain solvents and acids than the second method.
I think I plan on trying the second method first to be honest. I may well take a trip back to rhodium and see what the synths are saying on there as iv not checked there in a while - certainly not since iv had tryptamine.
If someone is able to clear up literally ANY of these questions I’d be incredibly grateful. I’m awaiting getting paid tomorrow to be able to buy more anhydrous methanol and will most likely buy some dry ice (I have plenty of acetone) which should keep it nice and cold.
It just makes sense to me that you would alter the PH in order to manipulate the product, clean it up a little and allow it to x’stalise. Then re-x….and probably re-x again given that I’ll most likely be doing either subcutaneous injections or if I can get a drip machine / medicinal infusion machine, I can ride the waves and explore the DMT-scape a little better and maybe be able to remember a little more….
Also, I know there is a lot in this post - if you have performed this RXN personally could you possibly chime in and let me know which method you went about it in? I am not looking to milk the cash cow here - this is literally for my learning as well as maybe my own personal use. I heard yesterday on hamiltons podcast there is a company in Spain that will test alkaloid content of organic matter as well as doing GCMS on whatever sample you send in….pretty exciting stuff - probably WAY outside my budget but we’ll see!
It’s funny how tryptamine smells like DMT. That sort of plasticky type smell - I’m not willing to see if it tastes the same when inhaled though!!
On a more serious note - although I may not get it tested professionally, I will be doing TLC to make sure the RXN is complete - trouble is my glass plates are MASSIVE. Could I get a glass cutter and cut the silicon sprayed plates from 20cmx10cm to 10cmx5cm. Then i would have 5 much smaller plates that will actually fit into a beaker I own instead of having to buy a huge beaker to do any TLC…
Also; watching hamiltons 5-meo-DMT synthesis that he does in Mexico; I noticed he used paper TLC for the same reason and his pieces of paper are about the same size I would score and knock the glass off as. I’m just wondering how he can get away with using paper for TLC when everyone else I have spoken to says that you should be using glass plates sprayed with silicon - I just didn’t look at the size! I have a black light for said usage but if I can get away with using some sort of paper TLC that’s going to be easier.
Thanks in advance - sorry this post is a bit is a scatter of chaos!
Hope you can help with at least something!
RR